1 00:00:00,498 --> 00:00:05,606 Today R.T. is talking to Peter Joseph, activist and filmmaker. 2 00:00:05,746 --> 00:00:09,450 He's the founder of The Zeitgeist Movement and has recently released 3 00:00:09,591 --> 00:00:13,269 his newest film 'Zeitgeist: Moving Forward'. 4 00:00:13,410 --> 00:00:15,774 Peter, thank you for joining us today. 5 00:00:15,925 --> 00:00:19,251 For our viewers who may not be very familiar with it 6 00:00:19,392 --> 00:00:22,865 please briefly explain what The Zeitgeist Movement is. 7 00:00:23,100 --> 00:00:25,525 - The Zeitgeist film series I'll first point out 8 00:00:25,666 --> 00:00:27,666 is my own creative expression 9 00:00:27,816 --> 00:00:31,025 and it carried over with an influence and inspiration 10 00:00:31,166 --> 00:00:33,333 to The Zeitgeist Movement through a number of people 11 00:00:33,474 --> 00:00:36,588 that wanted to start being active in social change. 12 00:00:36,729 --> 00:00:38,726 The Zeitgeist Movement overall 13 00:00:38,838 --> 00:00:42,103 is built upon the ideology of The Venus Project 14 00:00:42,244 --> 00:00:45,436 which is worth mentioning, the life work of Jacque Fresco. 15 00:00:45,576 --> 00:00:48,213 What that means is all of the work that he's done 16 00:00:48,353 --> 00:00:51,837 throughout his entire life as an engineer: compiling sustainable designs 17 00:00:51,982 --> 00:00:55,903 compiling ideologies, value orientations 18 00:00:56,044 --> 00:00:58,931 compiling ideas essentially that make us in tandem with nature. 19 00:00:59,072 --> 00:01:01,933 If we want to approach all the problems in the world, we have to think about it technically 20 00:01:02,083 --> 00:01:07,324 not through political parties or the acquisition or movement of money. 21 00:01:07,464 --> 00:01:10,297 It's time we just go straight to it because we understand it now. 22 00:01:10,435 --> 00:01:13,631 Science... I say that and people don't quite understand what I mean. 23 00:01:13,781 --> 00:01:17,753 I'm not talking about an esoteric view, but a firm, physical science 24 00:01:17,897 --> 00:01:20,543 of what it means to meet the needs of the human population. 25 00:01:20,687 --> 00:01:25,439 -You often talk about the problems caused by our current monetary system. 26 00:01:25,596 --> 00:01:29,730 How is it that by taking away money from the equation 27 00:01:29,874 --> 00:01:32,084 you really think we can eliminate 28 00:01:32,222 --> 00:01:34,870 such problems as crime and disease? 29 00:01:35,021 --> 00:01:37,238 - It's not just taking away the physical currency. 30 00:01:37,389 --> 00:01:39,576 It's the entire system itself. Let's make sure 31 00:01:39,847 --> 00:01:42,712 that's abundantly clear. When I talk about money 32 00:01:42,856 --> 00:01:46,535 I'm referring to the monetary structure and its holistic entity. 33 00:01:46,685 --> 00:01:50,670 Let's start with crime: 90-95% of all crimes are based on property. 34 00:01:50,821 --> 00:01:54,916 A guy will run out and steal a car that's worth $15,000. 35 00:01:55,060 --> 00:01:57,991 He'll get arrested and thrown in jail for possibly 10 years 36 00:01:58,135 --> 00:02:01,600 at an expense of probably $300,000. Just give him the car. 37 00:02:01,750 --> 00:02:03,893 It's inefficient, the entire crime and punishment 38 00:02:04,030 --> 00:02:06,307 so give people what they need 39 00:02:06,458 --> 00:02:09,955 and you'll begin to see that needs and wants start to divide. 40 00:02:10,099 --> 00:02:12,731 We live in a subculture based on wants. 41 00:02:12,869 --> 00:02:15,608 We create all these artificial wants. People want their stylistic 42 00:02:15,746 --> 00:02:18,792 and materialistic ideas, and the things they want to own 43 00:02:18,936 --> 00:02:21,904 and show their property and status: This is a concoction. 44 00:02:22,044 --> 00:02:24,262 Then there's needs on the other end of the spectrum. 45 00:02:24,394 --> 00:02:26,177 Needs are true, viable things 46 00:02:26,309 --> 00:02:29,218 and when people don't have their needs met, crime emerges. 47 00:02:29,362 --> 00:02:31,387 Crime is easily related to money 48 00:02:31,525 --> 00:02:34,601 and there's only one small percentage of really serious violent crimes 49 00:02:34,742 --> 00:02:37,846 and even many of those come from psychological neuroses. 50 00:02:37,977 --> 00:02:40,132 You can research the work of James Gilligan. 51 00:02:40,276 --> 00:02:41,999 They come from bad conditions 52 00:02:42,141 --> 00:02:45,473 and in a Resource-Based Economy, that is a very important issue. 53 00:02:45,617 --> 00:02:47,790 It's not just the technical management of resources. 54 00:02:47,928 --> 00:02:51,364 It's understanding that the entire environment has to be low-stress. 55 00:02:51,502 --> 00:02:54,203 -You also talk about our over-reliance on fossil fuels 56 00:02:54,341 --> 00:02:57,690 and how this will eventually lead to a financial collapse. 57 00:02:57,834 --> 00:03:00,481 What do you think that it will eventually take 58 00:03:00,637 --> 00:03:04,345 for us to to start looking at our energy issues a lot differently? 59 00:03:04,488 --> 00:03:07,262 Does gas have to be 10 dollars a gallon? 60 00:03:07,402 --> 00:03:09,642 - If you're born into this system or indoctrinated into it 61 00:03:09,780 --> 00:03:11,663 and you think the system is working 62 00:03:11,801 --> 00:03:14,770 10 dollars a gallon might be the rude awakening it takes 63 00:03:14,914 --> 00:03:17,053 to get society to understand what's happening. 64 00:03:17,198 --> 00:03:20,782 - Let's talk about how over-consumption is affecting us in real time. 65 00:03:20,925 --> 00:03:23,835 Here in Los Angeles we're dealing with high unemployment 66 00:03:23,972 --> 00:03:27,421 unprecedented hunger. Does it really have to be this way? 67 00:03:27,558 --> 00:03:30,862 I think a lot of us over the years have grown to learn 68 00:03:31,006 --> 00:03:33,916 that there has to be some suffering in this world, right? 69 00:03:34,066 --> 00:03:36,451 - Capitalist, free-market system, I don't believe it's going to hold up 70 00:03:36,601 --> 00:03:38,781 for that much longer. I'm not a prophet 71 00:03:38,919 --> 00:03:41,065 but I think that it's going to show itself 72 00:03:41,202 --> 00:03:43,764 and people are going to begin to see that it's intrinsically flawed. 73 00:03:43,890 --> 00:03:46,258 The collapse of industrial civilization to put it 74 00:03:46,406 --> 00:03:50,131 very exaggeratedly 75 00:03:50,331 --> 00:03:54,053 because we base everything on oil is a very terrifying idea. 76 00:03:54,203 --> 00:03:57,663 I am not a doomsday theorist. I'm simply looking at the statistics. 77 00:03:57,801 --> 00:04:00,820 If we aren't adapting ourselves to renewables 78 00:04:00,955 --> 00:04:03,514 which we have plenty of: We just need a Systems Approach 79 00:04:03,658 --> 00:04:06,812 to energize them and get them going to change the global infrastructure 80 00:04:06,952 --> 00:04:09,089 which we could easily do if there was an interest to do so. 81 00:04:09,245 --> 00:04:12,018 It's a technical phenomenon. We don't need money to do it. 82 00:04:12,161 --> 00:04:14,163 We just do it. You know what I mean? 83 00:04:14,307 --> 00:04:18,188 If that doesn't ocur, we're definitely going to see more wars 84 00:04:18,330 --> 00:04:21,579 and extremely high gasoline prices. We're going to have a huge profiteering subculture. 85 00:04:21,717 --> 00:04:24,672 The collapse of society will be met with a huge profiteering group 86 00:04:24,810 --> 00:04:28,068 that are shorting all the interests, that are the owners of the goods 87 00:04:28,218 --> 00:04:31,256 that are going scarce because scarcity equates to more profit 88 00:04:31,399 --> 00:04:33,414 and that's another thing I think people should understand. 89 00:04:33,552 --> 00:04:36,438 There's no intrinsic interest 90 00:04:36,578 --> 00:04:39,090 in the whole of society for the well-being of everyone 91 00:04:39,253 --> 00:04:41,320 and there isn't going to be as far as I'm concerned 92 00:04:41,452 --> 00:04:44,215 a legitimate economic recovery. We're not going to see... 93 00:04:44,359 --> 00:04:48,084 The heyday of the human species, as far as I'm concerned, is over 94 00:04:48,228 --> 00:04:51,538 until radical shifts are made because of how important 95 00:04:51,688 --> 00:04:54,896 the hydrocarbon issue has been, and no one is doing anything 96 00:04:55,052 --> 00:04:59,250 to counter it. What we need really is a 'Manhattan Project' 97 00:04:59,447 --> 00:05:01,657 but for renewable energy research 98 00:05:01,919 --> 00:05:04,831 and without having to worry about limitations of corporations 99 00:05:05,131 --> 00:05:08,075 to get it done. To answer your question, there's not going to be 100 00:05:08,212 --> 00:05:10,289 an economic recovery that people are expecting. 101 00:05:10,436 --> 00:05:12,645 -But it was many poor and middle-class Americans 102 00:05:12,789 --> 00:05:16,055 who contributed to the victory of our current president. 103 00:05:16,199 --> 00:05:18,233 Is their voice not being heard? 104 00:05:18,358 --> 00:05:21,892 - Does anyone have a voice in this democracy we call America? 105 00:05:22,033 --> 00:05:24,330 It doesn't matter how loud someone yells or how many letters 106 00:05:24,473 --> 00:05:27,426 they write to their congressman or how much they complain 107 00:05:27,580 --> 00:05:30,116 very little can change what is set in motion 108 00:05:30,261 --> 00:05:32,397 by the very nature of the political system which is simple: 109 00:05:32,541 --> 00:05:34,545 It's appointed dictatorship, boom! 110 00:05:34,676 --> 00:05:37,195 Once they're in power there's very little any of us can do 111 00:05:37,339 --> 00:05:40,334 and since the entire thing is subservient to corporate interests 112 00:05:40,478 --> 00:05:42,510 through taxation and everything else 113 00:05:42,654 --> 00:05:45,721 you see that the political corporate interest in what John Perkins calls 114 00:05:45,877 --> 00:05:48,905 'The Corporatocracy' is the phenomenon that exists. 115 00:05:49,049 --> 00:05:53,083 The public is always going to be given the short end of the stick 116 00:05:53,226 --> 00:05:55,910 and always has been since the divinity of kings. 117 00:05:56,054 --> 00:05:59,377 Nothing's really changed. We live in an advanced form of feudalism and nothing more. 118 00:05:59,639 --> 00:06:01,644 - In the past you've pointed out the dangers 119 00:06:01,769 --> 00:06:04,504 of our massive debt problem here in America. 120 00:06:04,654 --> 00:06:08,204 Do you think that this is an issue that's just impossible to resolve 121 00:06:08,348 --> 00:06:11,713 even with the massive austerity measures that are being proposed? 122 00:06:11,857 --> 00:06:14,228 - Austerity measures are an abomination 123 00:06:14,366 --> 00:06:16,970 a complete atrocity against the general population 124 00:06:17,114 --> 00:06:20,064 as all austerity measures have been from the World Bank or any other institution 125 00:06:20,204 --> 00:06:22,033 because the problem isn't the people. 126 00:06:22,152 --> 00:06:25,538 They cut natural gas programs, NPR 127 00:06:25,688 --> 00:06:28,141 things like education. 128 00:06:28,347 --> 00:06:30,532 These are the core attributes of human survival. 129 00:06:30,676 --> 00:06:33,229 They cut welfare. Why are they cutting that 130 00:06:33,367 --> 00:06:36,422 when we're spending a trillion dollars a year on war? 131 00:06:36,572 --> 00:06:38,724 Where is the logic with all of this? 132 00:06:38,874 --> 00:06:42,269 - In your film, you talk about how robots will eventually be doing 133 00:06:42,416 --> 00:06:44,053 all the jobs that humans are doing. 134 00:06:44,397 --> 00:06:46,351 To a certain extent that's already happening 135 00:06:46,501 --> 00:06:49,494 robots are taking the jobs of thousands of people. 136 00:06:49,694 --> 00:06:51,733 This sounds like a bad thing 137 00:06:51,877 --> 00:06:54,724 to those workers that are losing these jobs now 138 00:06:54,867 --> 00:06:58,735 but you think that mechanization will eventually be a great thing. 139 00:06:58,879 --> 00:07:00,916 -Technological unemployment has manifested throughout time. 140 00:07:01,053 --> 00:07:04,594 Every major labor change that we've had as a civilization 141 00:07:04,738 --> 00:07:08,066 has been based on the advent of technology from the Agricultural Revolution 142 00:07:08,216 --> 00:07:11,288 (the invention of the plow) to the Industrial Revolution 143 00:07:11,432 --> 00:07:15,515 (the invention of the power machine) until we come to the Information Age 144 00:07:15,672 --> 00:07:17,993 we have now where everyone is interacting with computer systems. 145 00:07:18,151 --> 00:07:20,542 The contradiction of capitalism by some economic theorists 146 00:07:20,692 --> 00:07:24,368 that investigate this idea that we're displacing ourselves 147 00:07:24,518 --> 00:07:27,648 with mechanization that can create more 148 00:07:27,798 --> 00:07:31,362 provide more, but yet reducing human purchasing power... 149 00:07:31,506 --> 00:07:34,100 What you have is the more we mechanize, less jobs 150 00:07:34,244 --> 00:07:37,879 less money in circulation, so how can an economy work? 151 00:07:38,016 --> 00:07:41,273 It's starting to stifle itself because of this very phenomenon. 152 00:07:41,417 --> 00:07:44,561 Technology is more efficient than labor. It's time to maximize that. 153 00:07:44,704 --> 00:07:47,836 Instead of corporations feeling that they would be providing 154 00:07:47,973 --> 00:07:50,992 a social service to keep people employed, we say 155 00:07:51,142 --> 00:07:53,640 "Forget the labor crippling system. We're in a different paradigm now." 156 00:07:53,791 --> 00:07:56,304 We can create an abundance on this planet, an 'Access Abundance'. 157 00:07:56,442 --> 00:08:00,355 We can have vertical farms fully automated off the coast of Los Angeles 158 00:08:00,499 --> 00:08:04,156 that could produce all of the organic food for all of Los Angeles. 159 00:08:04,312 --> 00:08:06,939 - You make the claim that our current socioeconomic system 160 00:08:07,076 --> 00:08:10,490 is just not working. For people who agree with you 161 00:08:10,634 --> 00:08:14,779 or want to create change right away, what suggestions do you have for them? 162 00:08:14,919 --> 00:08:19,046 - If the patterns and trends that I see continue: 163 00:08:19,186 --> 00:08:22,559 ignoring of energy issues 164 00:08:22,699 --> 00:08:25,438 ignoring the growing instability through society 165 00:08:25,578 --> 00:08:27,890 the naivety of the general population to think 166 00:08:28,027 --> 00:08:30,106 "Oh, everything is just going to be OK" 167 00:08:30,225 --> 00:08:33,149 these things will coalesce into what I consider collapse 168 00:08:33,286 --> 00:08:36,024 and it's a multifaceted, very difficult thing to anticipate 169 00:08:36,161 --> 00:08:39,438 and it won't occur in some big 'you wake up one day and everyone's on fire' 170 00:08:39,568 --> 00:08:43,049 it will be a slow grind of more unemployment 171 00:08:43,189 --> 00:08:48,045 extreme poverty, suffering, death, more wars 172 00:08:48,185 --> 00:08:51,355 more basic social instability, rationing of resources. 173 00:08:51,499 --> 00:08:54,036 People should boycott the major banks 174 00:08:54,180 --> 00:08:56,733 especially the banks that are part of the Federal Reserve cartel. 175 00:08:56,889 --> 00:09:01,498 This is a corrupt financial institution that has a cartel of private banks 176 00:09:01,638 --> 00:09:04,895 and everyone seems to think it's OK. People are beginning to realize 177 00:09:05,035 --> 00:09:08,291 that people in power are preserving themselves 178 00:09:08,442 --> 00:09:11,592 and they really don't have a genuine interest to help anyone else. 179 00:09:11,729 --> 00:09:14,435 I do suggest that people begin to be more conscious 180 00:09:14,579 --> 00:09:17,468 and try to find other sources of information. 181 00:09:17,618 --> 00:09:21,208 I happen to enjoy RT independent media, more independent media 182 00:09:21,348 --> 00:09:23,385 and get away from the dominant institutions. Imagine 183 00:09:23,535 --> 00:09:25,806 years ago when you lived in a society 184 00:09:25,949 --> 00:09:28,773 where all you had was a newspaper. There was no television. 185 00:09:28,913 --> 00:09:31,782 All you got was the newspaper in your front door. Imagine how easy it was 186 00:09:31,922 --> 00:09:36,039 for people to control what people thought. Don't ever join the military. 187 00:09:36,189 --> 00:09:38,360 Support the people that are there and respect them as human beings. 188 00:09:38,510 --> 00:09:41,460 When I speak to people in the military, I say "Just get out!" 189 00:09:41,598 --> 00:09:45,269 I keep respect for the people that go into this. I feel for them. 190 00:09:45,419 --> 00:09:48,936 The poorer Americans that have been forced, coerced 191 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,505 by the economic structure to get money for college, and boom! 192 00:09:51,643 --> 00:09:56,671 They're thrown into this hugely detrimental psychological environment 193 00:09:56,811 --> 00:09:59,464 the shell-shock and everything that emerges 194 00:09:59,604 --> 00:10:01,621 the one in four veterans that commit suicide. 195 00:10:01,758 --> 00:10:05,967 It is not in our basic human development to just kill each other. 196 00:10:06,117 --> 00:10:09,741 I think that it really is a bad state of mind and causes more hurt than anything else 197 00:10:09,881 --> 00:10:13,009 and in the larger perspective geopolitically all it does is create animosity. 198 00:10:13,156 --> 00:10:15,976 If you took all the money we spend on war and applied it to renewable energies 199 00:10:16,101 --> 00:10:20,009 or applied it to anything social, you could resolve that problem in a second. 200 00:10:20,149 --> 00:10:22,728 If you took all the scientists that are currently developing weapons 201 00:10:22,878 --> 00:10:25,860 and put them on how to actually redesign a sustainable society... 202 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:27,858 If you get out of hydrocarbon economy 203 00:10:27,998 --> 00:10:31,824 if you had people actually utilize the interests of the well-being of the planet 204 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,644 and its human species, if we just simply made that decision 205 00:10:34,782 --> 00:10:37,041 instead of constantly trying to kill each other 206 00:10:37,185 --> 00:10:41,607 for whatever temporal purpose or resource, geopolitical alignment 207 00:10:41,739 --> 00:10:45,242 or whatever strategy of dominance happens to be the flavor of the month 208 00:10:45,393 --> 00:10:47,724 if we could just get away from that 209 00:10:47,862 --> 00:10:50,946 we'd be much better off, to put it very frankly.